 “The magic is created between two human beings, between a congregation of people with their horns in the air – that is where the real magic is," explains Benji Webbe of Welsh ragga metallers Skindred on the controversial subject of internet downloading and why he feels that no matter how many tracks you download, the live enviroment will never be replicated or surpassed.
"Jesus doesn't turn up until the congregation is in the house,” he adds.
Opinionated he may be but he has a heart and a fundamental understanding of today's music industry and after 10 years, he may just be right about a lot of things – even Ragga Metal or Nu Reggae.
Komodo Rock's Tazz Stander caught up with the man himself in the rain at the Sonisphere Festival to tackle the opinions head on, and get an idea of where they come from.
Benji, Skindred, How are you?
I'm alright thank you Tazz. Enjoying my rainy experience at Sonisphere.
Lets start this off and get this out the way. What's the deal with Dub War [Benji's previous band] and The Manic Street Preachers?
I think there were some things that were said backstage once that reached the ears of The Manic Street Preachers that upset their camp but it wasn't said by Dub War it was said by someone who was working for us so I understand that they got upset and some of the members got ill because of what was said. That's what got back to us but it was never ever Dub War who said anything. I was just someone who was working with us at the time that said something, that got back to Richie's ears and upset the boat and we got kicked off the tour but it wasn't us. I mean, my favourite singer from Wales, honestly, apart from Tom Jones, is the singer from The Manic Street Preachers, and always will be.
Thanks for clearing that up for us then! Your past interactions with record companies are really complicated. What is your thoughts on record companies in the current musical climate?
Well, I'm actually in a position where I actually like the record company that I'm dealing with at the moment, The Bieler Brothers, it's a small Indie label from Florida, we get to see the world, we get to tour, they give us good advise, I don't feel like I'm ignored or pushed aside and I don't have any fear of being dropped at any minute so that's nice you know. So I feel that unless you're really in there with a label, this business is like walking on thin ice everyday as a musician.
Why do you think Skindred is doing so well in the States?
Do you know what? I believe personally that were doing the same all over the world, everywhere we go. If there is a club that holds 500 people, 500 people turn up to see us and that is from Osaka to Brisbane to London to Wales. I think we are doing great.
I have always defined success in a band as a band that is known worldwide by fans.
We are definitely known world wide.
I've always had this opinion that if you're in a band from the UK and you make it big in the States, when getting back to the UK, you will be able to make it big here too then.
I think that Britain has always shadowed, from the 50's, from Elvis Presley, Britain has always shadowed what America does, and that is a fact. If America blows up about Mastodon, Korn, Deftones, Skindred – who ever, Britain goes, “Yeah, they're good because the American's like them”. That is just the way it works.
That is definitely the opinion I've had there are so many bands following in Led Zeppelin and Queens thinking really.
It is true. As you mention Zeppelin and Queen – all these great bands have gone to America and got love, even Bush, and then when they come back here, everyone thinks they are great because the American's like them.
You've forgotten a name out of that list.
What was that then?
Skindred!
(Laughing) Ah, I don't name drop my own name, come on!
How do you think the music scene differs between the UK and the USA?
One thing about America – rock music is independent. Here you don't get rock stations that plays rock and metal music 24/7. In America you do. You can flip between listening to an R&B station on mainstream radio to a station that only plays Nickleback and Slipknot. The beautiful thing about us, you can listen to Nickleback in America and then hear Skindred or The Lost Prophets or Metallica. I think that's what Britain needs and I'm not talking about on the internet because that's an easy medium to get into, I'm talking about mainstream radio that reaches your mechanic in a garage. Every time a metal festival is put on in the UK, it's sold out, its full, it's rammed so you can never tell me that heavy metal music or rock music is dead because people always show up and rock out.
I agree with you on the radio side of things totally. The other thing that pissed me off about our music industry is 'radio friendly' versions of songs. Are we being true to ourselves by conforming to the radio's standards and them not accepting our music?
No we are not, that's why Elvis Presley got blown out the water because he was gyrating his hips and pissing people off and that is the way it has been from the Sex Pistols … is that what music is about? I mean, at the end of the day it's compromising the spirit of Rock and Roll. Rock and Roll is about fucking in the back of a car.
Rock and Roll is a minority of a hypocrisy!
At the end of the day, Marilyn Manson is the only person who is genuinely been rock and roll for the last fucking 20 years. He scared people. Rock and Roll is meant to be scary, its not about being friendly. I don't want to be fucking radio friendly. It's like the Clash – do you think they wanted to be radio friendly or were they just making music that they loved? They never thought, “we need a hit”, they made music from the heart. Marilyn Manson never had a hit, he just had a really fucking scary story.
There is an awesome band in London that is busy recording their new album and they have an awesome track called 'Fuck You' and it was one of the questions that I asked their guitarists. To be radio friendly, are they willing to record two versions of their song?
That is the sad thing about it. They will have to say 'Screw You' because of the powers that be. They need to stick to 'Fuck You' otherwise its not a real rock and roll thing – its all about compromising and its not staying true to rock and roll. At the end of the day, it just goes to show you how compromised even the heavy stuff is.
How has Skindred personally profited from the internet?
I always say this to everybody that listens to Skindred. If you downloaded our album from itunes or whoever else, I cant fucking think of all the download sites now, whatever it is, if you downloaded our songs, the atmosphere that we create at our show will never be created online. The magic is created between two human beings, between a congregation of people with their horns in the air – that is where the real magic is. So download all you fucking want because you're never going to get me online, you never will.
The key to a rock and roll show is the ability to transpose energy to the audience, take it back and give it back to them.
Its similar to the shit that I say when I'm on stage. I mean it, I'm speaking from my heartbeat. Without the crowd, we are just 4 arseholes in rehearsal and they make the magic. We don't make the magic. The magic is not made between us 4, its made when the entities are all mixed together. It's a congregation in church. Jesus doesn't turn up until the congregation is in the house.
Is it possible for yourself to ever become a Skindred?
A Skindred? (laughing) I don't know, I don't know!
Could you or couldn't you?
Do you know what a Skindred is?
Yeah, its a skin head and a Dread
Skindred is more to do with the unity of people. If you can take all your bullshit and leave it outside then you are a Skindred.
I know what you mean but I'm just being an idiot and taking the literal meaning.
Of course you are.
Could you be a real Skindred?
Yeah
No you couldn't.
They way I look at is is that its people that come together …
You're changing the subject again
Of course, what the fuck? When you don't understand the question you change the subject (laughing)
(laughing) You cant have a skinhead and dreads together
Of course you can. Lots of people have. Skinheads on the side with dreads on the top or a mohawk in the middle.
Ok, I will leave it there (laughing)
Fuck, thank you (laughing)
What's on the cards from here on out for Skindred?
We are going to play a load more festivals next summer and we will release our new album which is going to be fantastic whether its on downloads or in the record stores – it is going to do fantastic. A lot of people are going to dig us and a lot more people are going to know who we are in the UK and the rest of the world. I feel very strong and very confident and happy that we have been going for 10 years and we have seen a lot of people come and go and struggle because of the scene that they are in. The scene has died and been recreated and died again but we are still standing predominant. Seeing 10 000 people standing in front of me here at Sonisphere raising their hands as I asked them too shows me that we are still going places.
That must've been amazing.
Honestly, there are two things that I have done in my life that have made me feel high – feeding the poor and rocking out. Those two things have made me go, 'Oh my God, this is what life is all about'.
A man with a heart, sees it how it is.
That's the way it goes innit? You feel it, you say it.
Finally, what other bands would you say are in your genre?
I like to look at it like this, Skindred are a band that is doing exactly what the Clash was doing, or the Police, or the Specials. We draw in on music of today. Drawing on the elements of the Jamaican dance hall culture and also the British heavy metal and rock scene. We are doing what all the bands I mentioned were doing but were doing it in the 2000's.
You guys are pretty unique though.
A lot of people say that and I'm glad because we wont fall into the category of doing the same shit all the time. I love AC/DC to death and I wouldn't want them to change and that is what I want to be, a band like that that doesn't have to worry about what the new scene is all about or the new hairstyle (Benji takes his dreads and makes an emo fringe with them). It doesn't matter to us you know.
I think that emo fringe dreads suit you!
You like it (laughs)!
“The magic is created between two human beings, between a congregation of people with their horns in the air – that is where the real magic is," explains Benji Webbe of Welsh ragga metallers Skindred on the controversial subject of internet downloading and why he feels that no matter how many tracks you download, the live enviroment will never be replicated or surpassed.
"Jesus doesn't turn up until the congregation is in the house,” he adds.
Opinionated he may be but he has a heart and a fundamental understanding of today's music industry and after 10 years, he may just be right about a lot of things – even Ragga Metal or Nu Reggae.
Komodo Rock's Tazz Stander caught up with the man himself in the rain at the Sonisphere Festival to tackle the opinions head on, and get an idea of where they come from.
Benji, Skindred, How are you?
I'm alright thank you Tazz. Enjoying my rainy experience at Sonisphere.
Lets start this off and get this out the way. What's the deal with Dub War (Benji's previous band) and The Manic Street Preachers?
I think there were some things that were said backstage once that reached the ears of The Manic Street Preachers that upset their camp but it wasn't said by Dub War it was said by someone who was working for us so I understand that they got upset and some of the members got ill because of what was said. That's what got back to us but it was never ever Dub War who said anything. I was just someone who was working with us at the time that said something, that got back to Richie's ears and upset the boat and we got kicked off the tour but it wasn't us. I mean, my favourite singer from Wales, honestly, apart from Tom Jones, is the singer from The Manic Street Preachers, and always will be.
Thanks for clearing that up for us then! Your past interactions with record companies are really complicated. What is your thoughts on record companies in the current musical climate?
Well, I'm actually in a position where I actually like the record company that I'm dealing with at the moment, The Bieler Brothers, it's a small Indie label from Florida, we get to see the world, we get to tour, they give us good advise, I don't feel like I'm ignored or pushed aside and I don't have any fear of being dropped at any minute so that's nice you know. So I feel that unless you're really in there with a label, this business is like walking on thin ice everyday as a musician.
Why do you think Skindred is doing so well in the States?
Do you know what? I believe personally that were doing the same all over the world, everywhere we go. If there is a club that holds 500 people, 500 people turn up to see us and that is from Osaka to Brisbane to London to Wales. I think we are doing great.
I have always defined success in a band as a band that is known worldwide by fans.
We are definitely known world wide.
I've always had this opinion that if you're in a band from the UK and you make it big in the States, when getting back to the UK, you will be able to make it big here too then.
I think that Britain has always shadowed, from the 50's, from Elvis Presley, Britain has always shadowed what America does, and that is a fact. If America blows up about Mastodon, Korn, Deftones, Skindred – who ever, Britain goes, “Yeah, they're good because the American's like them”. That is just the way it works.
That is definitely the opinion I've had there are so many bands following in Led Zeppelin and Queens thinking really.
It is true. As you mention Zeppelin and Queen – all these great bands have gone to America and got love, even Bush, and then when they come back here, everyone thinks they are great because the American's like them.
You've forgotten a name out of that list.
What was that then?
Skindred!
(Laughing) Ah, I don't name drop my own name, come on!
How do you think the music scene differs between the UK and the USA?
One thing about America – rock music is independent. Here you don't get rock stations that plays rock and metal music 24/7. In America you do. You can flip between listening to an R&B station on mainstream radio to a station that only plays Nickleback and Slipknot. The beautiful thing about us, you can listen to Nickleback in America and then hear Skindred or The Lost Prophets or Metallica. I think that's what Britain needs and I'm not talking about on the internet because that's an easy medium to get into, I'm talking about mainstream radio that reaches your mechanic in a garage. Every time a metal festival is put on in the UK, it's sold out, its full, it's rammed so you can never tell me that heavy metal music or rock music is dead because people always show up and rock out.
I agree with you on the radio side of things totally. The other thing that pissed me off about our music industry is 'radio friendly' versions of songs. Are we being true to ourselves by conforming to the radio's standards and them not accepting our music?
No we are not, that's why Elvis Presley got blown out the water because he was gyrating his hips and pissing people off and that is the way it has been from the Sex Pistols … is that what music is about? I mean, at the end of the day it's compromising the spirit of Rock and Roll. Rock and Roll is about fucking in the back of a car.
Rock and Roll is a minority of a hypocrisy!
At the end of the day, Marilyn Manson is the only person who is genuinely been rock and roll for the last fucking 20 years. He scared people. Rock and Roll is meant to be scary, its not about being friendly. I don't want to be fucking radio friendly. It's like the Clash – do you think they wanted to be radio friendly or were they just making music that they loved? They never thought, “we need a hit”, they made music from the heart. Marilyn Manson never had a hit, he just had a really fucking scary story.
There is an awesome band in London that is busy recording their new album and they have an awesome track called 'Fuck You' and it was one of the questions that I asked their guitarists. To be radio friendly, are they willing to record two versions of their song?
That is the sad thing about it. They will have to say 'Screw You' because of the powers that be. They need to stick to 'Fuck You' otherwise its not a real rock and roll thing – its all about compromising and its not staying true to rock and roll. At the end of the day, it just goes to show you how compromised even the heavy stuff is.
How has Skindred personally profited from the internet?
I always say this to everybody that listens to Skindred. If you downloaded our album from itunes or whoever else, I cant fucking think of all the download sites now, whatever it is, if you downloaded our songs, the atmosphere that we create at our show will never be created online. The magic is created between two human beings, between a congregation of people with their horns in the air – that is where the real magic is. So download all you fucking want because you're never going to get me online, you never will.
The key to a rock and roll show is the ability to transpose energy to the audience, take it back and give it back to them.
Its similar to the shit that I say when I'm on stage. I mean it, I'm speaking from my heartbeat. Without the crowd, we are just 4 arseholes in rehearsal and they make the magic. We don't make the magic. The magic is not made between us 4, its made when the entities are all mixed together. It's a congregation in church. Jesus doesn't turn up until the congregation is in the house.
Is it possible for yourself to ever become a Skindred?
A Skindred? (laughing) I don't know, I don't know!
Could you or couldn't you?
Do you know what a Skindred is?
Yeah, its a skin head and a Dread
Skindred is more to do with the unity of people. If you can take all your bullshit and leave it outside then you are a Skindred.
I know what you mean but I'm just being an idiot and taking the literal meaning.
Of course you are.
Could you be a real Skindred?
Yeah
No you couldn't
They way I look at is is that its people that come together …
You're changing the subject again
Of course, what the fuck? When you don't understand the question you change the subject (laughing)
(laughing) You cant have a skinhead and dreads together
Of course you can. Lots of people have. Skinheads on the side with dreads on the top or a mohawk in the middle.
Ok, I will leave it there (laughing)
Fuck, thank you (laughing)
What's on the cards from here on out for Skindred?
We are going to play a load more festivals next summer and we will release our new album which is going to be fantastic whether its on downloads or in the record stores – it is going to do fantastic. A lot of people are going to dig us and a lot more people are going to know who we are in the UK and the rest of the world. I feel very strong and very confident and happy that we have been going for 10 years and we have seen a lot of people come and go and struggle because of the scene that they are in. The scene has died and been recreated and died again but we are still standing predominant. Seeing 10 000 people standing in front of me here at Sonisphere raising their hands as I asked them too shows me that we are still going places.
That must've been amazing.
Honestly, there are two things that I have done in my life that have made me feel high – feeding the poor and rocking out. Those two things have made me go, 'Oh my God, this is what life is all about'.
A man with a heart, sees it how it is.
That's the way it goes innit? You feel it, you say it.
Finally, what other bands would you say are in your genre?
I like to look at it like this, Skindred are a band that is doing exactly what the Clash was doing, or the Police, or the Specials. We draw in on music of today. Drawing on the elements of the Jamaican dance hall culture and also the British heavy metal and rock scene. We are doing what all the bands I mentioned were doing but were doing it in the 2000's.
You guys are pretty unique though.
A lot of people say that and I'm glad because we wont fall into the category of doing the same shit all the time. I love AC/DC to death and I wouldn't want them to change and that is what I want to be, a band like that that doesn't have to worry about what the new scene is all about or the new hairstyle (Benji takes his dreads and makes an emo fringe with them). It doesn't matter to us you know.
I think that emo fringe dreads suit you!
You like it (laughs)
Benji, thank you so much for taking the time out to chat to me.
Thanks Tazz, thank you.
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